Entries Tagged as 'China'

So what’s China really like? Part 62704

Like I’ve said before, this is probably the question that I get asked the most—and the answer, today from the WSJ, is: “it depends on which part of the elephant you’re touching at the moment.”  From the article, “He said he didn’t think corporate transparency was any worse now than before, but “I don’t know why people believed [the numbers] so much in the past.””

Yup, while China is a complete different place than it was 20 years ago, China isn’t really any different today than it was 16 years ago when I first arrived. Yes, the infrastructure is MUCH better, but it’s not safer (high-speed rail).  Yes, there is much more money especially in cities, but crime and poverty are still dominant daily issues for most Chinese.  Yes, the standard of living has gone up for many, but the quality of life (food in particular) is horrible.  And connections are still the way the game is played.

Sometimes living in China can be great, sometimes scary and if you’re a buyer—you need to be doing QC 24/7 (eating, sleeping and dreaming about QC).

Here are a few different versions of China all from today’s  inbox.

1. Selling US-made chopsticks to the Chinese.

2. Chinese buyers in SEA—locals beware.

Hi David,

I came across your post on why a buyer should always do QC.  I have a concern about a potential business deal and would be grateful if you could offer me some advice.

I am a buyer from SEA who has access to product X. My friend introduced me to a Malaysian company who has a buyer from China. The buyers from China want to visit the actual facility in X.  I’m glad to take them and I suggested them to meet at our company office to see samples and videos, sign Non-comps and then proceed to the location.  But they disagree and want to come to the supplier site without any agreement in place.

What do you suggest I do? I am afraid they will by pass me and go straight to the supplier.

Thanks,

____________

If they won’t sign anything, you’re right not to take them.  You’re also right that they will probably find someone else if you don’t take them.  You have to choose—do you want to work with them or not already knowing that they will probably not follow any contracts or agreements that you sign together.

If it was my choice I wouldn’t do it.  Sure you might be passing up some money, but the problems and the potential to get stuck with a client that won’t pay or will lie to you/cut you out is just not worth it.

DD

3. US Citizenship for my Chinese wife.

4. Scared to eat.  If you can read Chinese, you can regularly read about chemicals in chicken feet, pork, bad oil, etc.  Here’s a look at some of the issues around the Chinese food industry highlighted by the recent pork issues in Wal-Mart.

4. Molds again and again.  You didn’t think I could get through this blog without a good (bad?) production-problem story, did you?!

We’ve had more than our share of mold issues with a project that we’re working with a factory in Fujian–so many in fact that the client asked me today, “Is it just our bad luck or are there serious issues with this factory and/or our product?”  My answer–just our bad luck.  Sometimes things really do just go wrong.  We’ve had a number of temp molds break and the final mold, because of some imperfections and changes was brittle and broke as well.  Each brake requires time to build another mold.  The good news is that the factory has been very good at accepting responsibility for both the problems and delays.  The project isn’t huge, but the factory has been good about working with us.

So which China is it now?  Or more importantly, which China is it going to be to be for you?  This one, or this one? I’m decidedly on the fence.  Actually I think it will be more of the former, but a really rich and arrogant and petulant version of the former.  Like the last two options in this article.

Just know that it’s always changing—that’s probably the only think that you can count on in China.  But watch out for the pop!

A Chinese Steve Jobs? Also: SRI Speaking Schedule for Oct

First my speaking schedule for October.

I will be speaking in HK and online 7 times in the next 4 weeks.  Most of the presentations will be at the Global Sources China Sourcing Fair held at the Hong Kong Asia-World Expo out by the Hong Kong Airport.

First presentation: Buying from China: What new buyers need to know.

Oct 12th at the Global Sources Electronics Show

Oct 20th at the Gifts, Premiums and Home Show

Oct 27th at the Fashion, Garments and Accessories Show

Second presentation: Improving your sourcing performance.

Oct 14th at the Global Sources Electronics Show

Oct 22nd at the Gifts, Premiums and Home Show

Oct 28th at the Fashion, Garments and Accessories Show

The third presentation will be on online webinar hosted by China Business Webinars.  Nov 3rd online, Preparing to work in China, what you need to know before you get here.  You can register here.

____________

Now for the good stuff!

Why do you have manufacturing problems in China?  Why can’t “simple” changes be made on the fly?  Why can’t problems be discussed openly and directly in China?

The Chinese interviewees in this article indirectly answer these questions while talking about why there isn’t a Steve Jobs from China (yet).

  1. The economics of China inhibit innovation.
  2. The politics of China inhibit innovation.
  3. The educational system of China inhibits innovation.
  4. The lack of a autonomous and effective legal system inhibits innovation.

Sad on so many levels.

I would add another answer: China has only been able to even start asking questions like this in the last decade.  Give them 50 more years (assuming growth and progress can continue as have the last 30 years, a major assumption that I won’t make).

I’ve been saying these same things for 10 years—Chinese are as smart and capable as anyone else and there is both great capacity and opportunity in China.  But there are social and structural barriers to innovation, problem solving, negotiations and intellectual protections.  Sure there are various levels of these same problems (and others) everywhere else too.  But in China, the point is, that you’ve got to be aware that even though “it sure looks like they’ve got a lot of money” and they use the same iPhones and even have better/newer/cooler office buildings than we do in much of the west, business is not understood or managed the same.  The goals and processes are not the same.  The legal/political/historical/social/cultural environments are completely different.  And that means that “business” is different.

So what works?

1. If you’re going to be manufacturing in China for China, then do the market adaptations in China.  Closely related to the reality of China knocking off everything on the planet is the fact that they are at the same time making the market specific adjustments necessary to be successful in China.

2. If you’re manufacturing in China for export then stick to your guns on your product spec’s but allow for changes in the manufacturing process that will maximize the local advantages (labor or materials or weather, etc.)

3.Make serious investments into you suppliers and their processes.  This will improve both the product/services you receive but will increase the quality of everything the supplier (and eventually the industry) produces.

3A. Understand BEFORE you set deadlines that manufacturing in China will require more time, more rounds of pre-production samples and more QC during production than you’re probably used to budgeting for.  Pad your dates and plan for more full man-days of QC during production.

4. Accept the fact that China is or soon will be the largest ________ on the planet . As such it will soon have an inordinate amount of influence in just about everything that goes on in business (if it already doesn’t). Learn to work with it instead of against it—for (a lack of) innovation, this means that much of your pre-production work will have to be done abroad.  This new reality isn’t exclusively a good or bad thing, it just is.  There’s some of both for sure.

Other interesting items from the article.

  1. The successful Chinese  are counted as “Chinese” regardless of where they were born/raised (all from Taiwan).  Mainland Chinese assume that anyone that is “ethnically” Chinese has a blood/cultural/inherent tie to “China” regardless of if that person has ever lived/studied about/can speak the language of/or even cared about the current PRC.  Once Chinese always Chinese.  Interesting implications of that for national security here.  This causes more than a few uncomfortable situations as groups of Chinese get together overseas.  Typically the mainlanders get a crash course in global politics at their first social setting–Chinese and (PR)China are not synonymous.
  2. There are successful Chinese and Chinese companies, but the article notes that they are either group efforts in China or individuals outside of China.  Jack Ma (Alibaba) is raised as a notable exception.

 

What to ask for at a tradeshow (and afterwards too)

I recently received this email from someone planning on going to a show this fall and I thought that it would be a good blog since I get multiple similar requests each year about this time.

Good-day David,

I read your piece on “It’s just a little bit more. They can afford it, right?”  I enjoyed your straight- forward opinion.

It also made me aware to be “cautious” when attending the China Sourcing fair in November. It is my first time I am attending, seeking business opportunities.  With the economic struggles we still feel the pain as we are small fish here.

My question to you here is: could you give me any suggestions on what questions to ask the suppliers and what to look out for?  Also what products do you suggest I should look at for our market here.

Anything else you think I will need to know?

Thank-you for your input and help in this regard.

Linda

 

Thanks for your email questions.  Yes, there is a lot that you’ll need to ask suppliers to make sure that they are both who they claim to be and are appropriate fit for you.

First questions to ask the suppliers at the show.

  1. Where is the facility and can you go to visit (this week while you’re in the country)?
  2. Will the person that you’re speaking with at the show be in the factory when you go to visit (so you don’t have to repeat everything you’ve gone through today)?
  3. Do they have business documents that they’ll let you see?
  4. Will they let you talk with engineers and other managers?
  5. Will they allow 3PQ?
  6. Can they give you referrals?
  7. Will they sign (and keep) NDA’s and other agreements?
  8. Can you meet and even QC sub-suppliers?
  9. Do they have the correct export documentation?
  10. Have they exported to your country/region on the world before?
  11. How much of their production do they outsource?
  12. How do they deal with non-conforming product?

Second, questions that you need to ask to understand if they are right for you.  You need to realize that just because you find a great factory that doesn’t mean that it’s a great fit for you and your project.  You need to realize that if you’re too big/too demanding/too advanced or if you’re too small for them you’ll not get the service that you really want or need.

  1. What is there average order qtty?  Is your order similar?
  2. What is their average order time?  Is your lead time sufficient?
  3. Have they done similar projects (similar levels of customization, similar components)?
  4. Can you communicate with them effectively and do you feel comfortable working with them?

Third, questions you’ll need to ask when you visit them.  I would never advise anyone buying from China to pay cash to a factory that they hadn’t personally visited.  You need to confirm everything that they’ve told you at the show–remember, it’s a tradeSHOW (emphasis on SHOW).  Who they really are and what they really can do may be very different from what you see in the booth at the show venue.

  1. What are their current conditions (social compliance, environment compliance, etc)?
  2. Do you approve of the processes that you see (what you see them do for others is exactly what they’ll be doing for you)?
  3. Is their physical capacity what they told you/enough for you?
  4. Do you feel confident that they can make your product?

Fourth, There are then things you’ll want to confirm before you place an order (even for samples).

  1. Can you verify their business documents?  Did you pay for business information from a 3rd party?
  2. Is their level of English (or your level of Chinese) good enough to resolve the problems that will come up in production?
  3. Can you trust them to keep their commitments and work with you like you expect?
  4. Do you own and can you pull all your molds and dyes in case you’d like to move to another facility?

Finally, let me share with you some things that you need to do yourself.  I know that I regularly bash on factories that are not honest about what they can do, but I’ve had just as many bad experiences (and lost more money with) Western clients that didn’t keep their end of the deal.  So realize that even though you should rightly be worried about the supplier you’ll potentially be working with, you too have a MAJOR responsibility to be both wise (don’t pay with out doing QC) and honest (keep you contracted agreements too).

  1. Always keep you word concerning dates and monies and anything else that is your responsibility.
  2. Always take into account the reality that if you’re late with art (or money or answers) it will cause production delays (usually longer than your delay).
  3. There will be problems so take notes and keep records and follow up on anything that you’re not clear on.
  4. NEVER MAKE ANY ASSUMPTIONS.
  5. Never make any changes from you spec’s or your contract.
  6. File all legal work in your home country and in China BEFORE you start passing out spec’s to anyone (even at the show).
  7. Spec out all your details and present them in a consistent and clear format.
  8. Meet FACE TO FACE with your factory as much as possible.
  9. Admit when problems are your fault and take responsibility for them.
  10. There will always be problems—usually you can work through them.   But always find a back up facility just in case.
I will be speaking at shows for Global Sources in HK 6 times this month.  Oct 12th, 14th, 20th, 22th, 27th, 28th.

7 Days in China-years can seem like a lifetime.

Some weeks are better than others.  Some are just down right awful.  This last week was one of those weeks, where everything goes wrong.

1. A Fight!  A Fight!  One of our factories has been complaining since we paid the deposit that we are too strict with our QC.  We’re not doing anything out of the usual (for us) but the factory is just not doing what they agreed to before we every paid them a deposit.  This isn’t new, we have this argument all the time.  What is new is the fight that our QC manager and the factory got into—actual fisticuffs!  I’ve seen many a screaming match.  I’ve seen gang fights on the streets.  I’ve seen brawls on the bball court and I’ve seen people get chased out of town with machetes or butcher knives.  But I’ve never seen factory professionals in white shirts and slacks go at each other with their bare knuckles.

Luckily, we had a second QC engineer in the factory that got in the middle and broke things up and mediated the immediate situation.  But we still have an active project.

So what to do?

We are always very clear that we support our QC people so that there never is a question as to who defines what acceptable quality is.  Also, we also try to be honest and fair with factories—we need them to do business.  And since we make money on re-orders, it make sense to keep them happy during/after the initial is being produced.  So we have to balance these to things by not sending our manager to this factory again, but also not giving in to any of the lower quality standards that the factory is trying to get away with.  This way both parties save face.  Someone else comes in to negotiate the argument for us and the factory manager gets face.

2. We had an employee take off for maternity leave.  Of course we knew that this was coming and so three months earlier we hired her temporary replacement—thinking that we could keep both once the new-mom returned.  So after a three-month investment into the new lady and only three weeks into the 2-month maternity leave the replacement tells us that she’s leaving too.  “This job is not what I expected it to be.  It’s too hard.”  You didn’t realize that 1 or 2 or even three months ago?

3. After a couple of frustrations, we decided that we need to have a back up for our international shipper.  For the most part, we’ve had a good experience with the old company, but they’ve made some changes in their staffing of their China office that have cause a few problems and made us a bit uncomfortable lately.  So we’ve been shopping around.  Well, of course the old company realizes what’s going on as we try out other companies’ services.  But instead of calling us to see what they can do about the relationship and see how they can keep our business, they go the opposite direction.  They call us, tell us that if we’re going to be using someone else they not only wont give us terms on any new shipments but that ALL shipments currently in transit will be held in the port of entry at $150 a day until all outstanding bills are paid in full.  This amounts to more than 10 container loads worth of shipping bills (current shipments and shipments still under payment terms), so it’s a substantial number.

We’ve had this happen before—twice as a matter of fact.  Because of the rules regarding shipping companies in China, they are usually set up independently or at least relatively autonomously from their foreign “home” offices.  This means that they have independent billing and collections, customer relations rules/norms, service centers, etc.  It also means that when it comes to where you’ll be paying your bill they are basically competitors with their own companies in other countries.  The China office always want you to have a “China” account and pay in China, that way the get more of the money.  Sometimes they make up some story as to why we need to change our billing to China.  Other times they are just flat out honest about their dishonesty—“You pay in China or we won’t show up for package pick up or delivery.”  One large shit-colored company has a rather bad reputation for holding shipments hostage until companies with offices in China change their billing to the China company’s billing system.

Good thing we had a couple of back up 3PL’s ready to go!

4. Different price, different quality, different sizes—same PO.  Yup, that’s what we got when we ordered a small qtty of stock items for a larger project.  They shipped less qtty, larger sizes and at a higher price than what we ordered.  When we called they said, “Sorry we were out of what you ordered.”  We asked if we could send it back and we’d wait until they had what we ordered.  They said that since it had already been shipped to us (from one Chinese city to another) that they wouldn’t take it back.  Of course we argued that we didn’t ask for it (the wrong order) to be sent to us, but that went no where.  Yup, we had to order it again, from someone else.

5. Factory refuses QC visit.  We use Asia Quality Focus for specific engineering-QC needs in locations across China where we don’t have our own employees.  We order man-days and they show up and do a great job.  Sometimes, too good.  Last week we had a factory call us and say that the 1. The independent testing company (not AQF) that rejected the product because it didn’t meet spec’s is wrong and that the pipes are correct.  And 2. The AQF QC engineer was too strict (boy, never heard that before) and was “trying to find problems” rather than “approve the order.”  Never mind the fact that we do not hire QC to either find problems or approve orders—just check orders.  Or that pipes are tested electrically and the process is standardized.  Or that the QC and testing company are not related.  Or that the same QC engineer never goes back to the factory twice.  Or that they get paid salary, not by the day.  Or that the factory agreed to repair/replace/finish everything that was marked as “fail” on the QC report anyway.  The factory says that they won’t do any orders again that require independent testing or 3PQ—that pretty much means they don’t want any more orders from us.

6. Factory says that if we don’t change to better materials, they won’t do the re-order.  Factory is complaining that there are too many rejects because the quality of the materials are poor.  Of course, they sold us the “best” quality materials when we placed the first order and that’s why the costs were higher.

Now, we’d be glad to upgrade as long as new materials pass the same tests as the previous materials.  And as long as the new materials match the same look as the previous product that has already been sold.  But, while tests have been passed, “look” to match previous production runs is NOT the same.  The factory can’t figure out why different colors of the same SKU number are a problem.  Client can’t understand why the factory thinks that this is acceptable.

7. Rejected materials equal retaliation.  A new buyer called us this week with a problem—production is done, but the quality is not acceptable and so the buyer doesn’t want it.  But the factory won’t do anything for them unless they buy it or pay about 2x as much for a re-order.

As much as I rail on factories for not doing what they agree too, this is not the factories fault (well, the poor quality is but finding out about it when the shipment is ready to leave China is NOT)—checking product for the first time only when it’s already done is just not a smart way to buy product from China.

The longer you wait in the production process to do QC the more difficult it will be.  We never advise any clients to just do a single day of QC at the end of the production process—it’s just a waste of money.  At that point, when everything is completed and ready to ship, you really only have two choices—accept or reject.  And if you reject product that is completed it will be sold to re-coup costs, you’ll probably not be able to get any of your deposit back and you won’t be offered a re-order since they don’t trust that you’ll accept it or pay for it.  From their point of view, there is no security in working with you if you’re not going to “partner” with them—which means that you recognize their investment and make one yourself (pay the balance and take the product).  From a safety perspective you just don’t ever want to be in the position of seeing your product for the first time when it’s already completed.

Sometimes Contracts are Not Enough

Sometimes contracts just don’t work.  Sometimes you not only don’t get what you ordered but you’re left with no viable options for exit or resolution.  Even ”if you can’t do it, just return my money and we’ll call it good” gets you nothing.  This is rarely ever successful.

In China, just because you can identify the problem that does not mean that you have a workable solution.  The reality is if you have guanxi and an MBA-system, as opposed to just having a contract and critical thinking skills, you can get anything you want done.  If you have a contract and critical thinking skills (and a western MBA) you will be able to detail (flowchart, graph and summarize) why you can’t get done what you want.  You’ll even be able to go to court—but that doesn’t mean you’ll get what you want.

One example I know of is Coffee Company X—like many others they tried to come to China and “do things the right way,” e.g. without any personal relationships—straight MBA numbers and efficient processes.  What they found was that they couldn’t get things done without “knowing people” as well as knowing how to do things.  They struggled to get registrations done, get spaces in prime locations and keep stores open.  Then, they consciously shifted their approach and now they are everywhere.  Did their foreign headquarters decide to do this or did managers that wanted to keep their stores open do it on their own?  That, I don’t know.  But I do know that selling coffee isn’t about beans, it’s about relationships and real estate (location, location, location) and you don’t get the prime spots in China without connections.

This last month two suppliers for completely different products confirmed stock qtty’s of goods, delivery times and quality standards.  Within the same work-week we placed orders with each.  Both came back to us and said, “Oh, sorry.  We don’t have the size, the price, or the qty’s that you requested (3 days ago).  But we’ll give you less, worse quality and charge you more. OK?”  This type of “business” begs my favorite un-useable question: “Are you stupid or just dishonest?!”  But of course that doesn’t help.

We did all the usual due diligence on these factories—paid for info, talked with buyers, checked out their physical facilities via a partner company in their areas and confirmed (or so we thought) available qty’s.  But nope, within a day of receiving the deposit, they didn’t have a damn thing.  “Demand” and “Govt rules” and “season” magically changed the entire project in less than 48 hours.

We played the game, called, begged, threatened, screamed, visited the factory, and adjusted expectations but we still were not going to get what we wanted.  So we called a friend with connections and had him get involved.  He wasn’t able to completely solve the problem, but once he was finished with the factory, “meibanfa” (no options) turned into some palatable choices.  Not great choices mind you, but choices, which is more than we had before he called.  We were able to substitute approved options for the same prices and keep the same delivery dates—really probably the best we could have asked for.

So what do we pay for help like this?  Well, we have a person in our company who ONLY does this work for us.  And when we go outside for help we never pay.  Well, we never pay cash and never “pay” immediately either.  Usually the help is “repaid” with favors later, most typically, help with a factory with whom we have some guanxi.

China is both different and risky.  You can ignore the risk and tell yourself that “numbers are numbers” no matter what country you’re in.  Or you can admit that it’s different, scary, uncertainty here and deal with it consciously.  I think that there are three ways to deal with the risk in China.

First, Chinese style—no due diligence or contracts, only Guanxi.  Until deep into 2009 and the collapse of the Western economies we’d never seen Chinese factories do any due diligence on buyers.  Even now, after so many factories have been stuck with product from buyers that have gone out of business before paying for their orders we rarely ever see anyone asking us for any corporate info/security that we’ll actually be paying our bills.  Even with large SOE’s it’s surprisingly still “business as usual” for Chinese in China—work with whom you know or build relationships before you order.

This is about education, but it’s describing the belief of parents of teens in China (e.g. 40+ year olds—the very people you’re doing business with).

here’s what our programme’s parents really believe: ‘I succeeded because of my ability to maintain and manage guanxi, not because of critical thinking skills and creativity. My child will succeed based on his ability to conform to Chinese society and to obey me.  My child will study in the United States to meet other rich and powerful Chinese. That my child crams for the SAT rather than read books and that he lives in a Chinese bubble will prove to me and to Chinese society that he’s a loyal and obedient Chinese, and that will ensure his transition back to China after he’s bored with the bright lights of New York and the blackjack tables of Las Vegas. Why should my child learn English and American cultural values when China is superior to the West?  Creativity and critical thinking skills are Western imports, and ought to be distrusted as dangerous influences.’

Second, Western Style—no Guanxi, only due diligence.  If you’re going to have only one, this is the one that most people choose.  And with this line of advice from CLB, I don’t blame you.

“The point is this. In China, you never know if you are dealing with a legitimate company and a legitimate representative of that company unless and until you investigate on the ground in China. Any foreign company that enters into a contract in China without this knowledge in hand is taking a risk that the Chinese companies themselves will not take.”

But the reality is, tons of DD and a great contract will NOT solve problems for you.  It will not force people to do their jobs and it will not guarantee quality product on time.  You’ve got to know who you’re working with.  You have to know that who you’re working with is used to getting paid to do what you’re asking.  I’m not suggesting that you pay them to do what they’ve contracted with you to do, but you must realize that you’re starting out with negative social credit since the supplier knows that you’re not going to be giving anything extra to them.  So when push comes to shove and you’re more strict than their other clients and they have more rejects than they accounted for you’re I a hole that a contract and numbers will not solve.

Third, the best of both worlds—lots of research and probably as many dinners.  You’re doing business in China because it’s cheaper, right?  So realize that it may cost you some in dinners, trips to the factory and additional time working both the personal relationships and numbers to get what you want.

I do NOT believe that you should “go native” and I do not believe that a western MBA is the key to making things work in China either.  You’ve got to have a lot more patience and willingness to work with your suppliers to get the same level of quality that you’re used to back home.

I guess that a fourth style would be to do nothing and just wire cash to a personal account of someone you met online—but if you’re going to do that, you could get better results (or at least have more fun) by going to Macao, or buying a Russian bride online or responding to the dying lady in Africa somewhere that needs your help, my dear, to get $15m out of her late husband’s account.

Write good contracts, run all the numbers, meet all the people involved and keep close contact with them, pay for a few dinners, spend time understanding the limits and abilities of the factory, hire someone (a trusted Chinese employee) to manage the relationships and negotiate the problems for you.  Use the best, not the worst of both cultures to find success.