Violence in Context
This is a follow up to the Post QC Blog where I said that we’d experienced some violence in Dongguan.
First, STOP writing to tell me “See! China is doomed by social unrest.” And “China’s a hellhole.” This is not true, this is not what I meant when I shared a “security note.”
Second, STOP writing to tell me that I “just hate China. Stop sharing stories like this that are just B***S***.” Every single story I share here is true. Because you read it out of context does not make my experiences any less true.
Second, a security note. Two other people (who shall remain nameless), while in a different part of Dongguan today, saw a group of people on the side of the road hack another person to death (at least they think he died) with a machete. They kept on driving, sped up even, to get out of there as quickly as possible.
If you have money or are alone I would highly recommend that you DO NOT go out at night in any of the industrial areas outside of Shenzhen. This would include Songgang, Dongguan, Longgang, Bao’an, Guanlan, Shiyan, Huizhou and other areas with tons of (unemployed) migrant workers and not a lot of policing or economic development.
I’ve seen fights, I’ve seen people get robbed and beaten, I’ve seen a woman and child get run over by large dump trucks, I’ve even seen a dead body on the street (at least I think it was dead), I’ve had family tell me about kidnappings they’ve seen, I’ve had family robbed at knife point and I’ve been pick-pocketed numerous times myself. I’ve had clients tell me about huge gang fights they’ve see while making side excursions in shopping malls! I even chased down and dragged to the police station two guys who tried to steal my bike once. But I’ve never seen anything like this before.
You need to make sure that being here is really worth it for you. And if you are staying here, you need to take the security threat seriously. The risk is increased with more and more unemployed people loitering around.
It’s sad to me that an honest side comment on danger—meant to be a simple warning—gets all the attention at a time where there should be much more focus on other issues (QC, Finance, general economy, etc). Some people are now using my experiences to justify their description of Dongguang as a “hellhole” (comments on Fool’s Mt). Let me explain the situations and all the events so that you, who are using this to claim the social destruction, can calm down a bit.
First, I am honestly afraid of living in China for an extended period of time. But it’s not a hellhole. I’m much more scared of the traffic and the poison food than I am of getting robbed/killed. Honestly, I was much more scared of getting killed while driving in South Chicago in ’98 with Utah plates (Jazz/Bulls NBA Finals) on my car than I am of violence in Dongguan.
Second, not all of the events that I listed were in Dongguan and not all of them are this year and not all of them were even in Mainland China. I’ve been here, in SZ, for 7 and in Asia for almost 20 years now and I’ve seen a lot of stuff. Here are the details with dates/places so there is no misunderstanding.
- Hacking on the street—Monday, Feb 2, 2009.
- Fights on the streets—Chongqing ’96, Bangkok ’98, Gaoxiong ’99, Shenzhen ’04, Songgang ’05, Shenzhen ’07.
- Robberies and beatings—Taizhong ’00, Shenzhen ’05, Songgang ‘06
- Attacked by guys with a pipe—Jiayi ‘00
- Dead body–BKK ‘91, Guangzhou ‘07
- Woman get run over—Taipei ’01,
- Woman and baby get run over—Xiamen ‘06
- Child getting hit by a hit and run driver–BKK ‘08
- Kidnappings that family saw—Dongguang ‘08
- Family robbed at knife point—Guangzhou ‘02
- Pick pocketed—Shenzhen 3 times in 7 years here, once in Taiwan, once in Chongqing.
- Mall brawl—Louhu ‘06
- Bike fiasco—Shenzhen ‘05
Finally, you can see that it’s not all Dongguan. It’s not all Mainland China. And it not all this last couple of months. So yes, be careful, but don’t see the end of the world in this (in the US stock market, maybe, but not in Dongguan). The violence is certainly bad here but it’s NOT getting worse, from my perspective. And it’s NOT worse in Dongguang compared to other industrial areas either. Unemployment is bad now and it’s always been dangerous in the outskirts of Shenzhen; I dare say it’s risker now, but I’ve not personally seen a big change in the last year. Hong Kong news has been reporting things like this for almost 20 years now.
I’m just saying: Be Careful.
Thank you for your bravery in covering this issue. While China is a fantastic place to live, some cities definitely have a high danger quotient and little protection is offered by both the PSB and the media.
The violence certainly isn’t limited to Dongguan or the current economic crisis. I’ve witnessed it and experienced it in China over the past 7 years myself- but I could say the same about my home (NYC). Legal protections are minimal: identifying your attacker in China is A LOT different than it is the US.
I’ve been pickpocketed in China and I’ve been pickpocketed in Chinatown- it happens. Your point should be welcomed by all readers: “Be careful.”
The name is Dongguan. No G. No alternate spelling
Obviously, the story about someone being hacked to death with a machete on the street got alot of attention. People are even questioning its veracity. So in your follow-up post, you wrote:
“I’ve been here, in SZ, for 7 and in Asia for almost 20 years now and I’ve seen a lot of stuff. Here are the details with dates/places so there is no misunderstanding.”
” * Hacking on the street—Monday, Feb 2, 2009.”
But you said that “two other people” actually saw the “group of people” hack a man to death with “a” machete. (I guess they stuck around long enough to see them pass it around?) So are any of these other things on the list things that other people actually did the firsthand witnessing for?
I would be curious as to which town in Dongguan it was. I hope it was not the town I live in now, because I do occasionally go out in it to eat and shop after dark, but now have been warned that what seems like a reasonably nice commercial area with shops and restaurants is actually overrun with violent criminals. Before I used to wander alone in dark alleys while carrying lots of cash, but now I need to reassess if it’s worth it to be here in this country!
I want to take your advice seriously, but I have a problem doing so: You’ve been in Shenzhen seven years and don’t know how to spell the name of the next city up?
Just one minor request: When making your “security alerts” in the future, please be careful to distinguish among things that you have seen, things people have told you about, and things that happened a decade ago and/or in another country (“Bangkok ’98″). Thanks!
Mike, if you’re as careful about your personal safety as you are about other people’s phonetics and grammar you should be fine.
In the original post was quite clear that I didn’t see the actual event in dongguanG and listed it here because it was the major event talked about in others’ comments and posts.
You are more than welcome to discount both my security warnings and the veracity of my (and others’) experiences because of typos. Again, if you’ll notice the original post, I put the even in as an “oh by the way” item since these types of events are reported regularly in the Chinese press–it’s not new, it’s not unique to dongguanG and I was just saying: be careful.
If you read Chinese papers or watch Chinese news this would not be a surprise to you–it’s not to anyone that does.